Evan: 1:28

And we're back for another fun discussion. Remember to follow us on social media that's Facebook, instagram and Twitter, at the Unmentionables Podcast X, at Unmentionables X, and thank you so much for your support and for tuning in Melissa.

Melissa : 1:43

It's the most wonderful time of the year and it's the scariest time of the year, it's back to school time, yay. If you are anything like me, you are so excited to have the kids back in routine and schedule, back to a breath of fresh air and back to the stress of the schedule and the routines and the school demands and the sports.

Evan: 2:30

Yeah, there's a lot going on. There always is whenever we go back to school. There's a lot for parents, there's a lot for the kids. There's just an awful lot that all happens at once and I think it creates a swirling environment of fun and a swirling environment of fear, chaos, lots of different things going on. Environment of fear, chaos, chaos, lots of different things going on, and I think we'd really like to navigate some of these ups and downs, the anxieties and excitements of the back-to-school time, the back-to-school ritual I say because it's always sort of similar every year.

Evan: 3:06

Right, get me out to get clothes. I need a new book bag, it's time for new shoes, and let's talk about the realities of that. Talk about some of the things that we experience. Let's talk about some of the things that we know other people are experiencing and then maybe circle back to some practical steps that we can take to ensure success for us and for our kids. Sounds good. So let's talk first about parents. Right, as parents, we know there are an awful lot of good things and an awful lot of scary things that are going on at this time of the year For me, I know I'm excited. The grocery bills are going down Teen parents you know what I'm talking about If you have teenagers.

Melissa : 3:50

Well, the board eating right. I'm hungry, and then, an hour later, but I'm still hungry again, going through eight loaves of bread in a week.

Evan: 4:02

Exactly, exactly. How many different ways can I make eggs in a day?

Melissa : 4:07

Right, which is awesome when you have your own chickens.

Evan: 4:12

Well, not everybody, not everybody has our pros.

Evan: 4:16

Houses stay cleaner because there's nobody there to mess them up constantly and then not pick up after themselves. Right, for those parents out there that have young kids and maybe they're single parents or maybe both parents are working and they're not at home daycare expenses go down because you don't have to pay for full day daycare anymore. You've got school that's taking a big brunt of that right.

Evan: 4:38

So there's a lot of good, wonderful, amazing things that parents we see and we get excited about. They're going to be at school. They're going to be learning. They're going to be doing new things. They're going to be hanging out with their friends. They're going to be learning. They're going to be doing new things. They're going to be hanging out with their friends.

Melissa : 4:56

They're going to get some of that energy out at recess. But to get there we have to survive. We need to survive the behaviors that come before they, or two, of school, especially when they get home after school and they're exhausted because they've been doing more things. And when they're exhausted they're cranky and they're irritable and just navigating, getting up earlier again. But this is often when we see an increase in siblings being nasty to each other, the whininess, the poking and the prodding and the defiance. We see a lot of those things right now.

Evan: 5:49

Yeah, so parents are dealing with that and I think a lot of parents are probably going. Why is this a problem every single year around this time? I don't think for most parents right out of the box anyway, they really fully understand. Can you talk a little bit about what generally causes that kind of, those kinds of actions and responses? What are the kids feeling, that's really causing that and how can parents recognize it?

Melissa : 6:16

So I think it's really important for us as parents to know that every behavior has a cause. There's a reason underneath it, because we have good kids that struggle, and it's not just a struggle when there's negative stressors happening. Exciting things are stress too, and our body's nervous system responds to that in the fight or flight response. So when we are extremely excited about a new teacher and seeing our friends again, kids have a hard time regulating. They rely on us as parents to help them co-regulate. So if we're going to do that, we need to stay calm in the face of whatever they're bringing at us and instead of reacting to the behavior on the surface, parents can take that step back and say okay, my kid is under a level of stress right now, even over something exciting, and it's my job to step back and help them navigate that.

Melissa : 7:34

Let's talk about feelings. We grew up in a generation where feelings weren't okay. We stuffed our feelings and if we had big feelings, feelings we were sent away to our room or punished for them. And it's instinctual for us as parents to respond in that same way, unless we recognize it and do better.

Evan: 8:07

Yeah, absolutely no better, do better.

Melissa : 8:09

No better do better. No better, do better yeah.

Evan: 8:12

Yeah. So let's talk a little bit too about, as parents, some of the fears that we have. Right, because while there's a lot of wonderful, there's a lot of fears that we have that go along with the kids going back to school. We talk about the safety of the children. Yes, we are entrusting our babies, our children, to other people who we have varying levels of understanding of.

Melissa : 8:40

Absolutely, and while there are a lot of people the vast majority of people that work in schools and I experienced this in our home district they love our kids, they truly care about the physical and emotional well-being of our kids. Teacher who had sex with a student or was accused of touching a student, whether it was proven or not, and I know, for me as a parent, that gives me concern and reason to pause and look at a district and what the district's priorities are.

Evan: 9:34

Yeah, yeah, and it's interesting you bring that up. There's been so many things in the news lately, like you said, locally as well as nationally just recently, within the last few months, about even years about teachers and staff being inappropriate with students in different ways or accused of being inappropriate with students in different ways, and you know there's multiple levels of thought that go into this right. Whenever something like this happens, it's big online. It hits the social media pages, the Facebook groups, and you start to see messages like this teacher has been weird for 30 plus years, or you know even the flip side of that. You know this accusation is just an accusation.

Evan: 10:25

Let's see how the facts play out, which I think is kind of more of a reasonable take. Okay, let's talk about what the realities are of this situation, but then you've got the full flip side of that, which is you can't trust what these kids say. They just don't like this teacher because they failed them or whatever it might be. And I think there's so much speculation that goes on on those online communities. It can really difficult to sort out the facts and the truth and, depending on how the districts handle things and depending on how the people respond to certain things it can go different ways. You've got situations where districts you know, you've had a teacher who's had a history, a long history, decades-long history of accusations that when there's smoke there's generally fire of some kind.

Melissa : 11:21

I was going to say, when there's that much smoke, there's a fire, and those are the most dangerous ones. The most dangerous ones Because when we look at the profile of a predator, we look at somebody where they know the lines, they know the legal definitions, they know how to skirt right up to the edge of a boundary but not cross it. So if someone does say something they know, nothing can be proven and nothing that they did actually crosses into the line of getting them in trouble.

Evan: 12:04

Yeah.

Melissa : 12:06

That's scary.

Evan: 12:07

And you've got these teachers unions that are protecting these, that are protecting these, and I stop short of saying that the unions are actively protecting predators, even though I feel like their actions on behalf of their quote unquote members tend to protect the bad actors more so than the good. Teachers caught in a misfortune and there have been that I mean out of Forsyth County, North Carolina. There is a teacher that has now filed a lawsuit against the Forsyth County sheriff and several investigative officers after allegations of a sex crime from a student were proven incorrect and it seemed to, at least to this former teacher and his attorney, that the investigators just wanted to find him guilty. Right, Because a student said it. It must be a fact. Not only was lying mentally ill, Wow, and had several instances where they bragged about hurting that teacher for a variety of different reasons.

Melissa : 13:24

Right, and I think that's why you have to look at every one of these cases through a separate lens, looking at the fact that kids do have access to more information through the Internet and social media. And I mean I can tell you, having been Child Protective Services child abuse investigator, that we know when kids have been coached, we know when things don't add up, when well-trained, I should say, us police can see through the smoke and typically discern, which again, is very different than something meeting the definition of child abuse or meeting a threshold to press criminal charges.

Evan: 14:22

Sure, absolutely. And again, to go back to sort of the handling of these situations, right, a lot of the public sentiment is about how the district handles these things when you have a situation where you have someone who has a long history of these kinds of accusations and nothing has ever been done, the public becomes skeptical of that school district and so whatever that school district comes to as an answer to whatever the most recent complaint is, it's likely that the public is going to turn on that district and there's going to be some kind of a backlash right, because, again, like you said, where there's smoke of that kind, there's generally fire.

Melissa : 15:01

Well, and think about all the options that a district would have. They can relocate a teacher, because I think we have to recognize, especially with teachers' unions, that they can't just fire someone over allegations. And I will also say, within the profile of one of these predators they will want to stay and they will want to remain.

Evan: 15:27

Well, that's where their target rich environment is that they've groomed right.

Melissa : 15:30

They'll remain in the same environment. They won't want to move to a different school within the district. They won't want to move to a different position within the district because if the allegations follow them, it gives validity to it. But these people recognize that if they stay where they are. Well, now they've been shown to be innocent. Well, now they've been shown to be innocent. People, even now more so won't want to report because somebody else reported. And look what happened? Nothing. So what's the point?

Evan: 16:20

Right, agreed. I mean that's been a societal question around sexual abuse. For, going back as far as I can imagine, sure that it's been a crime, right.

Melissa : 16:36

It's a crime that's so hard to prove, right? Because it's less than 5% of cases. If there is any kind of transfer of DNA or forensic evidence, less than 5% of cases that are seen within 24 hours actually have forensic evidence. So when you're talking about things like groping, being up close on somebody, you're talking about things where there isn't necessarily DNA transfer or any kind of penetration either. What we're looking at is he said, she said.

Evan: 17:18

Yeah.

Melissa : 17:18

And our society and it's been shown over and over again doesn't care to listen to our children.

Evan: 17:25

Yeah, no, I agree. I mean again, you know, and there's smoke and there's fire, and there's times where it's true and there's times where it's not, and a lot of it goes back to how the district handles the situation, how transparent the situation is. Again, I go back to the unions on this. It makes it difficult when the unions want to keep everything hush-hush hidden and force the districts into those kinds of situations. You know there was another story out of Virginia this is actually a Christian school where a teacher there was accused of committing sex crimes and that school handled it differently.

Melissa : 18:10

You know, I think this is actually amazing. That was out of Virginia, right? Yes? And this school found out that a female teacher was having sex with a male high school student and they themselves reported it to police within an hour, they're saying, of finding out. And what's interesting to me about this is a school representative named Jones told WSET-TV she said we chose integrity instead of it being swept under the rug. She goes on to say scripture is very clear that if it was done in the dark it was going to be brought to light. And this I actually. I get what's it called when your skin like Tingly, yeah, tingly.

Melissa : 19:11

I get all tingly when I read this, because this is what we were talking about last week accountability, and this school knew especially as a Christian school, and I read a bunch of the comments and it was, of course, it happened in a Christian school. Other ones were you know why are you proud of yourself for reporting? You have to report, and I think about this and I go. Well, how many districts don't report their own teacher? How many sweep it under the rug and the teacher goes and finds another job?

Melissa : 19:45

How many times does this happen in public schools? Why wouldn't it happen in a Christian school, and at least this school and these people are standing by what they believe. They reported it, they're dealing with it and they knew. They knew they'd be condemned Backlash repercussions and they said we're going to stand in the light anyway, and we know this is wrong. We're going to actually do something light anyway, and we know this is wrong. We're going to actually do something about it. That's a school that I would send my kid to, because they care more about my student's safety and well-being than their own reputation, and I think that we're seeing a great lack of that in the public school system today.

Evan: 20:34

Yeah, yeah, it can be scary to send your kids into those kinds of environments, and so we've talked a lot about teachers and the safety aspect there. Let's switch gears a little bit to school violence. Let's talk a little bit about that because I know, especially as the kids get older, it's not, I think, as bad for playtime and, you know, maybe more focused on their position within their social ranks, it builds animosity and things like fights and you know, weapons and schools and those kinds of things come into play and I know that that is a fear that a lot of parents have.

Melissa : 21:34

Sure, and I know we usually do see this more up at the high school level, especially with fights breaking out, that kind of stuff. And I would just encourage parents that it comes back to what you're teaching your kids, what you're modeling for your kids. Are you modeling conflict resolution? Are you telling them you know well, if somebody hurts, you go, punch them in the face? Are you teaching them that violence is how you handle things? Or are we teaching our kids if you have an out, take the out, Don't look for the fight. And, quite honestly, these days a lot of parents are bullies and they're raising bullies and we look at it wanting to change the world, wanting to have a kind place where we just accept each other and we don't all have to be the same, we don't have to believe the same things. We can have our own strengths and weaknesses and allow other people to be who they are and just be nice. What happened to kindness?

Evan: 22:50

Well, that's a great question and actually something that I was thinking a little bit about, and so I looked into some of the statistics around. You know violence, school violence and victimization and those kinds of things and, unsurprisingly to, I think, most people you know, the heavier violence trends in terms of you know more school violence tend to be in populated areas, cities, for example, city centers and all of those kinds of things where you have a mass of people. I think you have lots of different dynamics when it comes to how people are raised in those situations. I mean, look just candidly and again, that's what this show is all about. It sure is, the cities are rougher places. The cities are places where I think people are tired of other people being on top of them all the time, where everybody has an opinion.

Melissa : 23:49

It's a lower socioeconomic status. You have parents working outside the home. You have multi-generational living situations.

Evan: 23:59

Tons of single parent dynamics.

Melissa : 24:01

Tons.

Evan: 24:02

You've got Gang associations Higher rates of drug activity.

Melissa : 24:09

You have all of these underlying issues that lead to more conflict.

Evan: 24:17

Yeah, and that spills over into the schools and you have those kinds of situations that happen there. And then as you get, what was interesting to me, if you look at it, is as you spiral out from a city and you go into the suburban areas, where again it's more densely packed than your rural communities. But that socioeconomic situation changes, right, you have people who are making more money, right, you have people who have a little bit more space between them and their neighbors and you generally sort of start to see that trend of violence lessen. The further and further you get out from the city you see that trend lessen. Now what I will say is that you find in places where they've done some integration so Delaware is an example. I used to live to schools out there as opposed to putting schools or keeping schools inside the city.

Melissa : 25:27

Oh, interesting.

Evan: 25:28

We found that those suburban areas near Wilmington where the students were getting bused in from the city were seeing more rates of violence than schools that were further out from the city and were getting less of those students bused out to them.

Melissa : 25:44

Well, it's a mentality, it's a lifestyle, it's a way of conducting oneself. That's learned behavior, it is truly survival at a young age, and it's it's intergenerational, yeah.

Evan: 26:06

And then, as you get out into the urban or the rural areas, away from the urban centers and out to the rural areas, you see a lot less violence and, believe it or not, a lot less bullying.

Melissa : 26:18

Yes.

Evan: 26:18

I know a lot that may come as a surprise to a lot of people, because they think those hicks, those hillbillies, they don't accept people that are different from them. And I think we live in a very rural community. We have a very rural school district. I mean, this is the kind of place where we don't need to, we don't need to outsource our agricultural technology studies. They could go across the street.

Melissa : 26:44

Oh honey, kids come to school riding on a tractor. We've had cows in the high school as senior pranks.

Evan: 26:51

Right. So I mean, this is a rural community that we live in and, you know, even in our own family we have kids. That are neurodivergent. We have kids that color their hair in wildly amazing ways. That are cool and fun, sure, but you might think in a place like this that they would get bullied or picked on, and you just don't see it as much. Sometimes you do, but it's not as much.

Melissa : 27:22

I think we have to rely on those around us more down here because we are further apart. Yeah, and my experience is that it breeds a stronger community of, if you need help with something, you ask around and somebody has got extra of something, or even if that's extra time, that they're willing to come and lend a hand. They're willing to lend resources. They're willing to lend both physical resources and labor resources. It really is. Now we also live among the Amish and even there you see people helping people, caring about people. We walk into Tractor Supply and everybody's talking to everybody about everything.

Evan: 28:14

Absolutely. It was one of the biggest changes for me, coming from Delaware, which is much more aligned with sort of the city lifestyle of put your know, put your head down and walk. You know, live and let live. I'm not going to you know, associate, not associate. But I'm not going to go out of my way to have a conversation with you because it's none of my business. Whatever you're doing here is none of my business. But in the rural communities people, you're right, they do care. You can put a post on Facebook about needing some stone and within an hour you'll have somebody that's like come book about needing some stone and within an hour you'll have somebody that's like come, get the stone out of my backyard because I need to get rid of it anyway, so I can plant there Right.

Melissa : 28:52

You know, whatever it might be, and I think even like when we speak about the teachers and the vast majority of the staff at the district, you know it's not every day that principals are getting duct taped to walls as a reward to the students for whatever it was.

Evan: 29:14

Yes, this was deliberate. This was not. It wasn't done.

Melissa : 29:17

Or the principal who's chasing a goat down the road and it makes its way onto Facebook. But even with that, you know, it's not every day that you have a middle school principal and I deeply respect this who in morning announcement says hey, just in case you haven't heard this yet today, just know, you're loved goes and still plays four square with the kids at recess because we still have recess time in middle school and shoots that basketball and high fives the kids and actually is genuinely getting to know them.

Evan: 29:58

Absolutely Moral of that story is you can high five the kids, but don't pat their butts.

Melissa : 30:02

Don't touch their butts. And I, you know, I want to pause on that too, because what do we do as parents when our kid comes home and says, hey, this teacher put their hand on me, and I know, I try to avoid conflict and try to get a feel for it. And where is that line? And where is that line? I'm a huge proponent of kids having a voice and using it respectfully, recognizing that kids have choices and that they have autonomy over their body. And I think there's a big difference between a female student finding a female teacher and saying I'm having a really rough day, can I have a hug? It's also different in elementary school than it is in middle school or high school. Mm-hmm, I think under no circumstances should a male be putting a hand on a female student, putting a hand on a female student, nor should a female teacher be putting a hand on a male student. Now, there's going to be a lot of other opinions on that. I think it depends on the relationship that a teacher has with a student.

Evan: 31:19

Yeah, I mean, we know principals and assistant principals that will walk up and give a side hug to a kid that looks like they're struggling or whatever Totally appropriate. And I think those are situations where, again, as parents, we have to be discerning, we have to understand what we're dealing with in the situations and we have to trust our guts. We know when something seems off and when something seems innocuous.

Melissa : 31:47

But our kids do too. And think about that for a second, because if your kid comes to you and says this teacher's creepy and he cupped my shoulder and rested his forearm on my back and leaned on me and I was really uncomfortable, that's vastly different than hey. I was real upset at school today and I started to cry and I went down to this teacher's room and asked for a hug and that teacher gave me a hug and sat with me and we talked. Those are two extremely different scenarios.

Evan: 32:26

Wildly different. We're talking about Wildly different, absolutely, absolutely, and then as parents again. So there's the safety aspect, there's teachers, there's other students, school violence. There's also the mental safety aspect. When we talk about bullying, this is something that has always existed. I think to a certain extent right Again, we kind of mentioned this earlier there's always some level of social dynamic where the kid that's a little different-.

Melissa : 32:57

That's life, that's even as adults.

Evan: 32:59

The person that's a little bit different gets ostracized to a certain degree, a certain level, and I'm not suggesting that that's right, I'm not suggesting that that is what we aspire to as a people, but it is reality and I think it is something that we have to recognize and understand exists and I think that schools have pretty good job of looking at the social, you know inner dynamics of the kids at all age levels, especially early in life, and maybe that's part of the trends that we're seeing where bullying is kind of reducing.

Evan: 33:39

Now, if you look at the trends right now, if you were to go and chat, gpt this or Google it, you're going to see that there's a reduction, quote unquote, in these bullying and victimization statistics and it's going to look fairly significant. The problem that I have with those studies at this point is they're typically done over the COVID period, where nobody was in school, and so it's a little bit of a. I have a little bit of healthy skepticism on that. I want to see what the latest numbers are now that the kids are generally, you know, back in physical school. But we do see a big reduction. I think a lot of what we do as parents is think about things the way they were when we were younger, sure, and apply that to today without maybe really understanding, right, I think maybe you can talk a little bit about your perspective on this, because I know that you are really engaged with the kids, with their teachers, and you kind of understand the realities of today versus what we experienced.

Melissa : 34:49

Sure, you know, even when we talk about bullying, I think some of the bigger issues right now really are in elementary school and middle school and it has to do with child development and impulsivity. It has to do with insecurity Kids who are insecure with themselves we know trend toward bullying. And also kids who are insecure tend to look at groups of people who may not be bullying but just be afraid to enter that group because it's intimidating. And I think that working with these kids, encouraging them to just try to be friends with everybody and if there's somebody you don't get along with, you can just choose to not spend time with them. That's okay, go find a different friend.

Melissa : 35:50

But a lot of this stuff that we're seeing really is it's developmental. We're seeing a lot of social delays still from COVID. The younger kids, well, let's see going into even kids going into fourth grade right now we're not in the public school setting yet when COVID happened and we're seeing fears of social environments, fears of the world. All of that comes from what they were born into and what they lived through in their very early years. And for people who chose to mask, they didn't learn how to read social expression, they didn't learn those basic cues and I think after we stopped masking, I don't think anybody really thought about wow, these kids are going to be really delayed in that.

Evan: 36:44

Wow, these kids are going to be really delayed in that. That's a really really important point that I think has gone underrepresented in the discussions, you know, during COVID and since COVID, in terms of the ability for our kids, you know, to really progress socially. That, you know, just being away from everybody and online on a computer is one thing, right, there's still video, there's still the ability to sort of see faces and stuff like that. It's maybe more limited and the interactions in person versus, you know, on a computer, always different, right. But I also think, a%, when kids are young and they're developing and they're learning social cues and all of those things, it's really an underrated importance to be able to see facial expressions and full body language and all of those things that these kids were deprived of during their formative school years kindergarten through second, third grade while we were in that COVID situation. And I think it's a great point to call out that maybe as parents we need to be a lot more understanding about our young kids and where they are developmentally.

Melissa : 38:05

Well, and we need to get them off devices and back to team sports, back to outside interaction and activities and actually interacting in social environments.

Evan: 38:18

Yeah, yeah. And as parents, another thing that we're concerned about, or scary for us, is academic success. How can I prepare the kids for success academically? How can we get them to a place where they are ready for the year? Can you just talk a little bit about? With all of the anxieties and all of the things that the kids are going through right now and all that they're feeling, how do we prepare them mentally for what's coming?

Melissa : 38:51

I was going to say. I don't know if anybody is going to like my response to that, because I don't agree with teaching to tests. I think that we've done our kids a really huge disservice and I'm not worried about my kid being ready for the year. I know as a kid and I'm the youngest of three and I always say I was the dumb one in the family, right, and the reality of that is that it's true in a very real sense, because out of the three of us I had the lowest IQ, still smart, but compared to them I wasn't, and what came easily to them didn't come easily to me.

Melissa : 39:37

I had to figure out how to work for things, and so I remember going into every single school year truly and honestly believing I was going to fail. I'm not going to know this stuff, I'm not going to be able to learn it, it's going to be too hard. And I remember my mom saying to me before every school year Melissa, just remember, they start with a review, they start with the stuff you already learned. I see that now as an adult looking back, but our kids don't see that, and especially when our kids have areas of weakness, which they all do, it's fears of? Will I fail? Will I be able to keep up of? Will I fail? Will I be able to keep up? If they've had a hard time in classes before? If they've had a hard time keeping up with classes, this is where, as parents, you're their best advocate.

Melissa : 40:41

If they're struggling, let's not settle for the school, saying they just need to work harder. Let's go in. Let's look at things like 504 plans. Let's look at IEPs. Let's look at are we demanding too much of our children? You know I'm a parent that doesn't believe in homework. I don't take my work home with me at the end of my workday.

M2: 41:01

Right.

Melissa : 41:02

And if we're going to say that school is their work A, they don't get paid for it. But they sure as heck don't get paid to bring it home. Yeah, home, that's my time with my kid. Yeah, don't you dare invade on my time.

Evan: 41:16

Yeah, parents, I think if you're listening to this and you're a parent, understand that you have parental rights, understand that these are your children, and just because you send them to a school to learn things doesn't mean you just have to accept what the school suggests.

Melissa : 41:35

Absolutely.

Evan: 41:36

Right. There are avenues for students who need more help. There are 504 plans. There are IEPs. There are just discussions with good teachers to say here's how Johnny learns, Right? A lot of teachers are willing. Most teachers are willing to, because they want the kids to be successful, right? Even if they are bound to a test for their performance, right? If little Johnny learns better in this way, then little Johnny's gonna do better on the test when it comes to it.

Melissa : 42:10

Somebody can read the test to little Johnny Right. And for the parents who already have 504s and IEPs, my favorite thing is when I get contacted by a teacher to say my kid isn't doing this, that or the other thing and I say well, have you followed the guidelines in their IEP?

Evan: 42:32

Yeah, Sometimes you have to remind them that that thing exists and they have to do those things. They give me a blank look, because what they're tattling on my kid for is already described in the IEP as an accommodation Right right and also I think it's valuable for parents to recognize that you have a right and your kids have a right to a certain extent. Sure, do To ask for changes to that. 504 or that. Iep throughout the year, as things come up. You don't necessarily have to wait until the IEP meeting.

Melissa : 43:10

You don't have to. You can call a meeting anytime there's a problem, and they are required to convene the whole group unless they're willing to modify it right then. So if they're willing to modify and move forward with the change, a meeting doesn't have to happen. But if they argue it well, we'll convene a whole meeting and that's everybody's time. Let's bring everybody together and have a conversation. Oftentimes the district already knows that what they're doing isn't correct and you know, a lot of parents just aren't educated in this. I mean, I can tell you my kids all have a copy of their IEP or 504 in their possession. Yeah, so you know if it's part of that 504, that a teacher needs to give them advanced warning for the section that they're going to need to read to the class so they can pre-read it. And then the teacher randomly calls on them. My kid can say, hey, you didn't let me know in advance, so I'm going to pass. And they have that document right there.

Evan: 44:23

Yeah, yeah. And these are tools that you have for your kids for a reason. These are tools your kids have for a reason. You're allowed and you're encouraged to use them. So, as parents, we need to be more empowered.

Melissa : 44:35

And empower our kids and empower our kids, absolutely Our kids are allowed to have a voice, they are allowed to speak up and that's it. If your kid is coming home and saying this happened, find out more. If your kid comes home and says this made me uncomfortable, ask and find out more. Let's stop sweeping stuff under the rug.

Evan: 44:59

Absolutely.

Melissa : 45:00

And let's stand in the light and have conversations, let's have open dialogue.

Evan: 45:05

Absolutely, and have conversations. Let's have open dialogue, absolutely. Speaking of conversations and open dialogue, I know that we have a special guest with us.

Melissa : 45:12

We do. M2 is one of the clinicians here at the practice and I thought that she just might have some really awesome input on this.

Evan: 45:22

Yeah, m2 is also a Melissa, and so because we have two Melissa's, the owner gets top billing. She's M1.

Melissa : 45:31

Well, did you ever hear where that came from?

Evan: 45:33

No.

Melissa : 45:34

We do a theme for Halloween. Every year, our whole building gets together and we have a big Halloween party and we always do a theme as an office. And so we were Dr Seuss the one year and instead of being Thing 1 and Thing 2, we were M1 and M2.

Evan: 45:51

Oh, that's great. So we're going to bring M2 into the conversation.

Melissa : 45:56

So, melissa, we were just having this conversation out in the lobby and talking about different school stressors and how we're navigating that for our kids and stuff, and I thought it was really cool when you were telling me about some of the things that you've already done and we're doing. So my hope was that you could just share with people what are some of the stressors and anxieties that you've had as a parent.

M2: 46:22

Yeah, so yeah, just to even like paint the picture like both my kids are the one my daughter is entering seventh grade, my son is entering fifth grade, so also his last year of elementary school.

M2: 46:35

So that's like playing into it, definitely, like they're both neurodivergent. My daughter daughter has had to deal with a lot of kind of like bullying last year so that was playing into some of the anxieties, like for me wanting to protect her going into the school year. And then I think for my son he's kind of been able to scoot past. He's very charismatic, so he's been able to scoot past some of the like sure, the bullying, but there's still that fear like he's entering fifth grade kids are going to start to notice he's a little bit different. But yeah, so I don't know. I think leading up to it we were having a lot of talks about like things that they're looking forward to and so they were starting school this past week, yeah, so the day before I took the day off we went like downtown Lancaster doing some shopping.

M2: 47:30

We went to pottery work so that we could like calm ourselves down, like so then we weren't thinking constantly about the looming like dread of school the next day, and then we talked about like the things, like particularly for them, what like their fears were, and then also like their like intention for the year, or like their goal, or if they could like sum up the year like what they want to focus on in one word and more from like the focus of like you know them as people, because I feel like for them particularly, I'm like you know what I think. Academics we're fine, sure, like we're going to get you're also like seventh grade and elementary school, but like more just their own like personal development.

Melissa : 48:16

Yeah, Can you share a little bit about, maybe, what they came up with?

M2: 48:19

Yeah, so they were focusing on, I think, for my daughter like a lot just like working on being like boldly herself, and I think she even like her word was kind of like courage. But so my son, like, was thinking about like self-confidence for her and found they both like picked out like a stone, that kind of like symbolized like what they were focusing on. So the one that like was for my daughter was like self-confidence, my son terrible, but I don't remember what this was. Um, but yeah, and then they each picked like a little, a little token that had like an animal on it that like would you know kind of be like their thing to to calm them and then put them in like a little like satchel and then we tucked them in their backpack. So then there was like a focus of like. Okay, this is what we're doing for the year, this is what's going to carry us through.

M2: 49:16

I love that yeah, yeah.

M2: 49:18

Can you tell me about the sage yeah, so then I got like burnt some sage and was like I had a wood on the backpack and just kind of like moved around them and of course, for them they were like you know what, mom? Okay, whatever, this is what we're doing. But I think like we've worked a lot on just like being able to express, like you know, for me I know that I was really anxious and for them to be able to say like this, like, like I don't, like you're feeling anxious, I'm feeling a little bit anxious, but like you can keep your anxiety on your side.

Evan: 49:53

Don't add to it. Yes. I'll be at birth and stage, and then we're just going to like If this helps you, we'll do it.

M2: 49:59

So the answer's for you yeah, well, I think for both because it was like yeah, and I think for both it was like yeah, and I think for them it was just more of like that intentional, like oh, we're taking time, we're acknowledging like we're feeling anxious and that we can bring that anxiety too, like they can come and talk to me.

Melissa : 50:16

You validated it. Yeah, you said this makes sense. Let's feel it and I'm going to sit here with you, which is beautiful, yeah. Do you have any other thoughts or suggestions on? You know, other than just being intentional, about recognizing it and talking through it, and even the act of pottery and how that uses our hands and it's, it's calming in that way? Do you have any other tips or thoughts about how other parents might be able to recognize anxiety in themselves or their kids? Self-care, what to do with it right.

M2: 51:01

Well, I think, like one other thing that I was thinking with, like the, that, like for my daughter, I, I wrote out her schedule in a way that she, because the schedule, they gave her was overwhelming with information and she had said I can't, it doesn't make sense.

M2: 51:18

So then we talked about okay, what do you actually need, and separate it out in a way that made sense for her. So that was super helpful. But yeah, I think like the other thing is just kind of like like first ask them like how are you about school before like me just throwing on like this feels really anxious.

Evan: 51:37

Yeah, I struggle with that so much because, like when I was in school, I had a difficult time Like my last name. I get picked on all the time Like right it was, it was, it's wild. You know the name quite shy. I learned what a queef was when I was eight. So it was, it was kind of wild. But I project that at times onto the kids and I sort of catch myself. But I'm sure there are other parents out there that are doing that. So I think that's great to sort of take a step back and ask them first, like okay, what are your concerns? If any? What are you thinking about? Are you anxious, are you excited, or both? Or both, you know, because you can have two sides of that coin, sure.

Melissa : 52:30

They can exist at the same time. Yeah, yeah, for sure.

M2: 52:34

And I think, even like I don't know, I know like a big thing, just even the past year that's been helpful is like telling, like particularly for my daughter, telling her like when she goes to see her own therapist, I will say, like you know, I've said tons of times like you can drag me through the dirt if that's going to help you to work through your stuff. Like, because I think she was very, you know, like protective of, like not wanting to say things bad about us, about like her friends, like, and so, yeah, like realizing that you can like have this thing that you don't like and also really care about the person is a big message that we've been trying to work on and so, even with school, that, like you know, you can have those different feelings and that she can like.

M2: 53:18

She'll tell me tons of times like Mom, I hear like you're, you're feeling anxious, you keep your anxiety on that side of the car, or whatever. She is the daughter of a therapist. Yeah, I think, just like letting them know. Yeah, they can feel like I can feel like Looting over. Yeah, and.

M2: 53:37

I think also like recognize that like I needed that day and to just like do something, not just like focus on you know. Of course in my head I would organize, like their rooms. We should get all these things set up. I think we need to not be thinking about you know. Think about like, okay, how are you going to feel?

Melissa : 53:56

Organize their brains yeah, yeah and get them and their nervous system yes.

Evan: 54:02

Give them a minute to rest and sort of prepare, right yeah.

Melissa : 54:08

Thanks for coming in. Yeah, absolutely Thanks for sharing with us. Thank you, we'll see you again. Thank you.

Evan: 54:15

Well, that was such a fascinating discussion. I think we've learned a lot today about sort of where we are as parents, where our kids are with the back-to-school time period, parents, where our kids are with the back to school time period. We learned a lot about, you know, how we can recognize what's going on both with us and with our kids. The discussion with M2 is fascinating around sort of how she handles the situation and what she was feeling and, I think, poignant discussions with her kids telling her to keep her anxieties to herself.

Evan: 54:50

I think that's something that we as parents tend to do. We tend to over-empathize, maybe with our kids and drop some of our anxieties in their lap. These kids should be allowed to have their feelings and share those feelings. We want to encourage them to think about the positives right, reconnecting with friends and seeing their teachers that they form bonds with and all the cool activities that they're going to face, and while recognizing that they have anxieties like will I fit in? This school is so big, and what if I get lost? What if I don't do well academically? And we've talked about recognizing those things and how those fears are real. And maybe, melissa, you can recap how do we as parents, work with our kids and allay our own fears as well as theirs.

Melissa : 55:48

Sure, I think you really hit the nail on the head. We want to validate. We want to validate that these kids have feelings and that those feelings are very real to them. It doesn't mean we have to agree, it doesn't mean we have to have the same feelings, but recognizing that is how they feel and that is okay. Just going back to recognizing that is how they feel and that is okay. Just going back to recognizing that behaviors stem from something deeper and we need to be able to talk with them and have that open dialogue about whatever it is going on.

Melissa : 56:18

Looking at mitigating fears by planning ahead. You know, hey, if your concern is I can't go to the bathroom during class, then let's see where we can fit those bathroom breaks in for you and plan ahead in that way. I think, as a parent, it's important to remember that we are not a pain in the ass. We are our kids' biggest advocate. And I say that because I would address a concern and I would feel guilty, because I'm bothering them and I can't tell you how many administrators have said look, you are their advocate. We might not like it all the time, but you have to do your job in this.

Evan: 57:09

And just as a caveat there, just to add, you often catch more flies with honey than with vinegar.

Melissa : 57:17

Absolutely.

Evan: 57:19

So take this with your own grain of salt. But whenever you're dealing with these administrators and these school officials and these teachers, there's a couple of things. So one treat them with respect and you're going to get respect back right. Two recognize that in most cases, I think everybody's on the same side here.

Melissa : 57:39

Yes for the kids.

Evan: 57:40

There are rare cases where you have an administrator or a teacher that only cares about themselves and those one-off cases you have to handle, or a teacher that only cares about themselves, and those one-off cases you have to handle, those one-off cases. But most of the time, those teachers, those paraprofessionals, those administrators, they care about your kids, they care about their success, they want to help them, they want to make their own jobs easier too. Don't get me wrong.

Melissa : 58:04

But I think one of the biggest things, too, is come with ideas. Don't get me wrong, but I think one of the biggest things, too is come with ideas. Yeah, don't just come to complain. Yeah, don't come because you're upset with that teacher or blaming a teacher for something. Come with ideas and thoughts on how do we make this better.

Evan: 58:21

How many times have we heard one story from our kids? Oh gosh. Only to go to the school and find out oh wait, this was a different story.

Melissa : 58:30

Absolutely, absolutely. And then I think I want to touch briefly too on the kids who are hesitant to go to school. They don't want to. Again, taking a deeper look at that and where is that school refusal coming from? And also, again, just remembering, the school wants to work with you. They want your kid in school, even if that means and I know there were times where I could get a kid to the school building but they sat in the nurse's office and did schoolwork all day or sat in a conference room or guidance but they were there.

Melissa : 59:11

And most of these school districts have a vested interest in working with you as the parent, helping work through whatever issues are going on with your child. I think most often we find a lot of supportive people. Everybody has a bad day, absolutely, and we need those extra accommodations and just the extra support, not to help our child avoid but to help them build that tolerance for distress and to build their ability to persevere through hard things and recognize and use the support systems that they have A lot of. It comes back to communication, open communication and dialogue.

Evan: 1:00:08

I know you've been a big proponent of finding activities at the school that the students or our kids enjoy and will keep them motivated, things like band, orchestra, drama, sports.

Melissa : 1:00:25

I'm also that parent that will listen when my kids talk about school and I listen not for who they're complaining about, but who is it that they're connecting with. And I'm the parent that'll, behind the scenes, shoot that teacher an email and say, hey, my kid really respects you, my kid really feels supported by you. They're having a tough time. Can you try to just connect with them and see if maybe there's something that maybe you can be a better help than I can? Because, let's be honest, our kids need other safe adults because they don't always want to come to their parent with things. So I encourage that. Well, you know, I encourage my kids to be open and honest about everything at school with their teachers and staff. We encourage that. You know like I'm too set in therapy too. If you need to complain about me, complain away.

Melissa : 1:01:23

If it helps you out. Go for it.

Evan: 1:01:25

Absolutely Well. Again, everybody, thanks for tuning in to this episode. I want to remind you that you can get us wherever you get your podcasts. You can check us out on social.

Melissa : 1:01:39

Just remember that if it feels uncomfortable, if it feels unsafe, if it feels awkward, the answer is no and as parents, we need to address it.

Evan: 1:01:50

Absolutely. We'll talk to you next time, everybody, bye.